Talk:Centaur

Cyllarus 21:33, 18 August 2009 (UTC) -
I suggest those of us who are playing long-term centaur players discuss how to best fill in and expand on the centaur page.
There are a few items I can think of that we can start with:
* How many tribes of centaur exist today?
* Where are most of the tribes at?
* What are the different 'breeds' of centaur?

Please sign each of your comments as you add them to this page.  Thank you.

Tribes

How many

• I am thinking a nice round number, like 10 or 12. Both numbers though are pretty tied up in Jewish history when referring to tribes, so we may want a different number. ;)
  • We can make it a small number of major tribes, but each major tribe has offshoots. For instance, Cyllarus comes from a tribe of 'big breed' (aka Clydesdale/Shire) centaurs that was agriculturally based. Aldred comes from a similar 'big breed' tribe that was located in Frostmaw. I would say odds are good that Aldred's tribe was an offshoot of Cyll's tribe, or vice versa.
    • Being biased, I of course lean toward Aldred's tribe being an offshoot of Cyll's, but there is historical precedent for larger than normal peoples expanding from a cold, northern area (all the Germanic tribes originally came from Scandinavia and expanded southward, displacing many of the original inhabitants). - Cyllarus 21:38, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
    • I would also ofcourse be biased to Cyllarus' tribe being an offshoot of Aldred's. My defining point is that a centaur would not leave a peaceful tribe to be a part of a tribe in a land with a very many dangers as well as an extreme environment. RP could change things around but we wont know until we can work it out. Aldred 23:03, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
• I'd like to put forth the idea of a nomadic tribe of whom Cadoras is a member. They would be free roaming traders, hunters/ gatherers and mercenaries. They'd travel all over the lands of Hollow avoiding the wrath of territorial Centaur clans by either stealth or exchanging news of distant clans and information. Cadoras
• As an update, I built the 8 template tribes below and filled up most of Hollow with them. I'm not sure we can fit more tribes in well.

Names

How should the tribes be named?

• Descriptive like 'Rolling Thunder', 'Longtail', 'Brightmane'
• Names, such as 'Sassanach', 'Folderol', 'Goorthenean'
  • I'm leaning toward 'Pathfinder' as the name of Cadoras' tribe but I don't think descriptive names would work unless all members of a tribe retained a pronounced trait or behaviour pattern. Cadoras
  • Another possibility is that they're named by where they are from, either currently or historically. --Cyllarus 03:56, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
• Generated by a name generator, using the pattern ss(ien|ian):
  • Tiavorian, Turrothian, Usktorien, Chealeian, Tasitian, Enthghaian, Quaoldian, Ashaleian, Kalildien, Denshyien, Queashien, Hinnalien, Iadenian, Darlorian, Qualyeien, Ashghaien, Oldorian.
  • If we use this naming style, a single member of the tribe would be called by the name minus the ian/ien at the end. I've arbitrarily named Cyll's tribe the Queashian, so Cyllarus could be called a Queash (pro: KAY-osh).

Locations

Where should they be?

• Aldred's tribe was in and around Frostmaw
• Cyllarus' tribe has not been specifically located, but most likely lies somewhere between Sage Forest and the Milous Plains.
  • Centaurs should be wherever there is little traffic. As the hollow wiki says they are territorial and like to stay in secluded areas of some meaning to their tribe Aldred 22:47, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
  • In the latest updates, I have made the Large breed tribe be based in Frostmaw, with Cyllarus' tribe an offshoot of it that migrated out the western side of the Xalious Mountains and down into the plains north and west of what is now Venturil.

Psychology

• Underlying most of a centaur's psychology is a very strong ego. Even if it doesn't show consciously in their mannerisms and behaviour, all centaurs essentially believe that they are better than other species. They have size, strength, speed, intellect, and longevity, all equal to or greater than those of the major other races, such as humans, elves, dwarves, orcs, etc.
• The majority of the centaur people are rather isolationist, preferring to keep their tribes away from large numbers of the other races, since the sheer numbers involved could overwhelm them.
• Those centaurs who do interact with other races and societies are often extremely polite and well-mannered, perhaps to demonstrate said superiority, but more likely just because they don't feel insecure about it. They know it's the truth, whether or not it needs to be said or if the other races agree.
• Conversely, centaurs who keep isolated can often be quite rude to people who intrude on their privacy. Again, it can be attributed to their inherent superiority, where the feelings of strangers are of less importance, especially when they are invading the centaur's home turf.

Physiology

How many different breeds of centaur are there?  This is a section where it would be helpful to have someone with actual horse knowledge and experience chip in.

Standard

• As described in the wiki page, this should be the majority of the centaur tribes.
  • Charlotte
  • Ekimrelyt

Draft

• Based off Clydesdales and Shires, these are larger, stronger, and slower than the standard centaur. In the history I wrote up for Cyllarus, as certain tribes settled down to an agricultural life, each generation slowly got larger and larger as sheer size and strength became more important than speed and mobility.
  • Aldred
  • Cyllarus

Desert

• Based off Arabian stallions maybe? Tough, light, and fast?
• Arabian breed centaurs would be a less hostile group. in history they were very close to the family. well groomed.
• As a centaur this breed would be strong, fast, and more suitable for hot climates.

Mountain

• Based off of sturdy mountain ponies?
• Small, agile, and hardy.
• Capable of carrying large amounts for long distances.

Sociology

What is the centaur society like?

• Centaur society is just as it is named. Very tribal. And tribes change between themselves. It all depends the threats of hostility in the land that the tribe comes from or bases itself in. Aldred 22:50, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

There is a bit of conflict in the official page, saying males are in charge of military matters, but females are in charge of political, 
but the only mentioned ruler is The Great Silverback, a male.  
I suggest the following changes then: --Cyllarus 21:24, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

• Males are in charge of military and most foreign relations
• Females are in charge of the lair and domestic matters
• Where there is an overlap (such as defense of the lair), the person in charge is usually the one with the most forceful personality and support within the tribe, and can be of either gender.
  • Thus the females are responsible for the future and current survival of the tribe. They determine if the tribe needs to relocate and to where.
  • Both genders are responsible for providing food for the tribe, as well as training the young adults.
  • Male centaurs are the ones most seen by outsiders. An outsider welcomed into the lair by the females is very rare, and subject to much scrutiny and suspicion by males and females alike.

Leadership and advancement

• Centaur leaders get their position through a 'cult of personality' method. Centaurs will not follow someone they don't trust and respect, so a leader must keep that respect, or lose their position. Too many failures, and they could lose it too.
• To replace an existing leader, a centaur must gain more support from the tribe than the current one holds.
  • They can challenge the leader to a relevant challenge and soundly defeat them.
  • They can wait for failure to undermine their support and step up as a replacement.
  • They can be elected by group decision after the current leader dies.
• In order for a leader to command all the tribes, he or she must earn the support of each and every tribe, and then keep it.
  • This is why the Great Silverback's achievement is so notable. It is almost impossible to do.
  • And since there is no tradition of hereditary rulership, when the old leader falls, any child that wishes to replace them must go through the same process.
  • Because of this, it is extremely unlikely that centaurs as a race will have much impact on the realm of Hollow. Individual centaurs can achieve greatness, but in order for large scale effects, a constant line of leaders would be required, which the centaur most likely will never have.
    • I think that leadership would depend on the tribe. some tribes could have different ideals depending on how they were raised to think. In some tribes the males could be seen more as the leadership type Aldred 23:03, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
    • Sure. Each tribe could have slightly different traditions and outlooks. They probably won't be too different from each other, but there could definitely be variations. --Cyllarus 03:34, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Intertribal Relationships

As stated in the main page, centaurs are always polite to members of the other tribes.

• Centaur tribes are always willing to come to another tribe's defense, although the debate for who is in overall command can be rather tricky. But the centaurs know they do not have a large population to fall back on to replace losses, and so must defend every member against outside aggression.
• Centaur tribes are NOT so willing to help another tribe attack an enemy, unless that enemy poses a very definite threat.
• Inter-tribal breeding is very rare, and the couple is often stigmatized. This is one of the main reasons why there are so many different breeds of centaur for such a small base population.
  • The Nomad tribe is somehow an exception to this attitude. No one is quite sure why, but it is suspected that at one point their numbers were so low that they could not support themselves without a large amount of inbreeding. Their tribal identity was so strong that they refused to merge into another larger tribe and disappear. So the only alternative was to allow centaurs from various other tribes to join them.
  • Alternatively, the Nomad tribe could have been founded by centaurs from several tribes who all had extreme amounts of wanderlust. Centaurs from existing tribes may choose to join the Nomad tribe for similar reasons today.

Tribes and sub-Tribes

The main page states that a tribe is an extended family group of a few hundred centaurs.
I would like to update that to the following:

• A sub-tribe is an extended family group of a few hundred centaurs.
• A tribe usually consists of 4-6 sub-tribes who all share a common tribal identity.
• Sub-tribes usually live separately, but all are in a single regional area.
• They periodically, usually seasonally, come together into one large tribe.
  • These times often are scenes of large celebrations, and this is the time when many youths marry and may move from their home sub-tribe to another.
• Possible names for the sub-tribes: company, troop, clan, herd, camp, faction.
  • I'm partial to troop, clan or camp. --Cyllarus 20:46, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Centaur Sports and Games

• Racing - Very popular with plains centaurs
  • One variant occasionally played between tribes is 'Full-contact Racing'. It can be rather brutal as, so long as no weapons or magic are used, anything is legal.
• Wrestling - More popular among the draft centaurs. A strange combination of sumo and greek wrestling, with aspects of arm wrestling and deer locking horns thrown in.
  • The objective is to either force your opponent outside the ring, or pin his torso back against his horse body. Leverage and maneuvering is very important, as well as size and strength.
• Javelin
• Archery

Player written histories

For reference, here is what we currently have.  
I would say that none of these are necessarily locked down. 
If we as a group decide something needs to be changed to fit, then it should be.

Aldred

• Aldred's tribe was a mix of Large breeds (Shire/Clydesdale) they focused on strength as they were very territorial. All were born with thick coats and more muscular meat than regular. Genetically they were bred warriors. When Aldred left Frostmaw to explore he came back to find they had been killed. He is now at the point of investigating their killing.
• Aldred has also become known as a chaos centaur. With great exposure to the corrupting powers of the chaos shards he has achieved the power to transform to a chaos beast.Aldred 20:34, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
• Aldred's tribe has use of light frost/ice magic that is passed through ceremony to new members, as well as to younglings when they become of age.

Cyllarus

• Long ago, his tribe changed their lifestyle from the conventional woodlands to a more agriculturally-oriented one. By raising their own food rather than foraging for it, they were able to sell the excess to the other tribes in exchange for other goods no longer easily accessible. Over time and generations, the different lifestyle resulted in a sacrifice of speed and agility in return for raw hauling power. Cyllarus is one of the largest of his tribe, and is experimenting in a new field as a merchant on their behalf. His wife Hylonome remained behind with the rest of the tribe as one of their political leaders.

Cadoras

• A mixture of Thoroughbred and Palamino the members of Cadoras's tribe are built for speed and endurance. They survive on the knife-edge between pure adrenaline pumping action and calm, composed meditation. Constantly on the move their reaction times are enhanced and are capable of releasing adrenaline almost instantaneously throughout their whole body in a fight or flight situation. Cadoras is an outcast from this tribe and leads a solitary existence deep within the Sage forest. Bereft of company his social skills are lacking and he avoids interaction with sentient beings. Cadoras
• Cadoras' tribe on the whole display a large capacity for speed and endurance, however due to their sometimes association with other tribes their young Centaurs can be born with unfamilar markings and attributes. It is in this way their, and other, tribes gene pools diversify and defeat stagnation.Cadoras

Other centaurs

• Charlotte
• Ekimrelyt
• Phelia
• Teira
• Cyneric

Tribal Descriptions (proposed)

I've only created 8 here, but that doesn't mean we have to stop with only 8.
We can have more or less tribes than this.  I'm just making stuff up.
Also, each tribe could be considered an agglomeration of several smaller tribes with a single tribal identity.
I am not an expert, but I believe the American Indians did this.  
The X tribe would scatter into many smaller encampments for one season, and then group back up for another.
This would also mean that the destruction of Aldred's tribe does not necessarily mean the
destruction of all of the large breed centaurs.  The rest of the smaller tribes still exist.
Note that I did not put any centaurs in Rynvale.  Boats are not exactly a centaur specialty,
so I thought it reasonable to assume that no entire tribes of centaurs ever migrated there.

Turrothian Tribe

• Pronounced: tur-ROTH
• Location: Milous Plains
• Breed: Standard/Plains
• # of subtribes: 8
  • Note: This is the tribe where the centaur respawn point is located.
  • Note: This should probably be the largest, richest and most well-known of the centaur tribes, being located between Kelay, Cenril and Gualon. If I hadn't made him a large breed, this would probably be a natural tribe for Cyllarus to come from.
  • Note: They see themselves as the elite of the Centaur world, and if any tribe were to claim a 'King', it would be the Turrothian.
  • Note: The Great Silverback was a Turroth.
  • Note: Ekimrelyt's proudness and leadership abilities most likely was handed down genetically from the elders of Turroth.
• Characters
  • Ekimrelyt
  • Telemnar
  • Cyneric

Denshyien Tribe

• Pronounced: Den-SHEE
• Location: Northeastern Sage Forest/Larket
• Breed: Standard/Forest
• # of subtribes: 6
  • Note: Excellent at hunting, trapping and camouflage
  • Note: Tend to be a bit larger, stronger and slower than plains centaurs.

Ashghaien Tribe

• Pronounced: osh-GYE
• Location: Southern Desert
• Breed: Arabian/Desert
• # of subtribes: 6, but the subtribes tend to be smaller, due to less resources.
  • Note: It was the Ashghaien sorcerers who take the credit for stopping the last invasion, although the other tribal storytellers often dispute their claim.
  • Note: Intolerant, nomadic, and extremely territorial.

Queoldian Tribe

• Pronounced: KAY-ald
• Location: Frostmaw
• Breed: Shire
• # of subtribes: 4 (now 3)
  • Note: Born and bred for the perpetually cold north, where large bodies are more efficient at retaining body heat, and hunting and herding are the most effient ways of surviving, the Queoldian are a harsh and warlike bunch, as conflict often erupts quickly between the various races for the limited resources available.
  • Note: It probably would not be unheard of for bands of Queoldian to form raiding parties and attack settlements around the Xalious Mountains, just like the Vikings did.
  • Note: Aldred's family tribe has been destroyed. The Queoldian will take great pleasure in dealing out revenge upon whoever did it. Or whoever they think might have done it. Or anybody nearby.
  • Note: Average lifespan is approximately 50 years less than standard, due to the extra strain put on their hearts by their bulk.
• Characters:
  • Aldred
  • Teira

Queashian Tribe

• Pronounced: KAY-osh
• Location: Western Plains (west of the Misshapen Lands)
• # of subtribes: 2 (only 1 subtribe split off, but the land is so rich here that have grown to 2)
  • Note: This tribe is a splinter off of the Queoldian in Frostmaw. They migrated west across the Xalious Mountains, and settled west of the Missapen Lands, in the Western Plains.
  • Note: They have lost some of the warlike edge of their Queoldian ancestors because their land is more fertile, and there is less need to fight for survival.
  • Note: Average lifespan is approximately 50 years less than standard, due to the extra strain put on their hearts by their bulk.
• Characters:
  • Cyllarus

Tiavorian Tribe

• Pronounced: TYA-vore
• Location: Southern Milous Plains
• Breed: Standard/Plains
• # of subtribes: 4
  • Note: Long overshadowed by their Turrothian relatives to the north, there exists a sense of bitterness, almost jealousy, toward the Turrothian.
  • Note: Races are very popular among many of the Centaur tribes, but many of the fastest Centaurs over the years have been Tiavor.

Chealeian Tribe

• Pronounced: KEE-awl
• Location: Kingdom of Enchantment
• Breed: Maybe something smaller and lighter, and they tend to be more magically oriented than other tribes, due to their long association with the faerie?
• # of subtribes: 3
  • Note: Some more powerful members of this tribe are invited to join the Order of the Unicorn, binding their spirit to that of a unicorn, gaining new powers, as well as a horn on their forehead.

Tasitian Tribe

• Pronounced: TAS-eet
• Location: Xalious Mountains
• Breed: Mountain
• # of subtribes: 5
• Note: Centaurs from this tribe would be small breed, making them slow and sturdy. A good combination for the mountain ranges.
• Note: These centaurs would also be more peaceful traders, Thier knowledge of the mountains and the paths would make this lifestyle ideal.

Darlorian Tribe

• Location: Nomadic
• Breed: Appaloosa (similar to Mongol tribal horses, I think)
• # of subtribes: 4
• Note: See Sociology above, the Darlorian are the only tribe that does not have any taboos against cross-breeds between tribes.
  • Not only will the Darlorian accept centaurs from other tribes who wish to take on the nomadic life into their tribes, other tribes are also willing to accept Darlor who wish to settle down, although the former nomad is often more welcome in whichever tribe he most resembles physically.
  • It is not unknown for a centaur to become a Darlor and then later in life settle back down with another tribe. However, they almost always settle back in their original tribe rather than one of the others. Perhaps a different sub-tribe, but usually at least the same tribe they were born to.
• Characters:
  • Cadoras