Talk:Mancer
Oh god, can we PLEASE just cut out all this 'mancer' crap? It's so superfluous. it seems people just crawl out of the wood-work mancing this, and mancing that. Makes me want to shovel out my brains with a spoon.
How Cute...
See, I don't have much of a qualm with this, if it wasn't for everyone and their chibi pet familiar of doom claiming to be a Mancer of multiple schools. Generally, WHen you take up a school, that's what you've spent your entire life learning. >> Psh.
Two things: 1) I found Lumomancys description somewhat erroneous..since it seems to compare that subclass to Clerics- whereas the terminology implies -light-. As in, the manipulation of light (Which has an absolutely incredible amount of potential).
2) Why isn't there an umbramancer sub-category (Shadow mages, and their ilk). We've had a number of them in the game. And they are the logical opposites of Lumomancers (The light kind, not the lolarious 'holy' kind.)
3)What would necromancys actual opposite be? Carnymancy? Since it's the manipulation of flesh, including and especially -living- flesh, whereas necromancy is the dead?
1) I don't see the manipulation of light to really be a suitable school of magedom. Mostly because I see the manipulation of light to simply be what an illusionist does. (By school of magedom, I mean lumomancers. They are illusionists, and illusionist is already a style of mage-magic.)
2) Because shadow mage is what they are called. Not umbramancers. And shadow mages tend to shift over to the necromancer side, like Valentin did.
3) The opposite of a necromancer is a healer.
In theory, wouldn't a Lumomancer -also- be able to do the whole >> Cutting light (yay, magical lasers) thing.
Also, illusionists are hardly limited, or even necessarily focused on manipulation of light. They could focus on sound, touch, taste, and smell, as well- as well as aspects focused within the mind. In fact, alot of illusions once they go upwards, may not have all that much to do with light at all, and more the manipulation of the faculties of the chosen target.
Also, what about shadow mages that -aren't- necromancers. >> And, if a necromancer dabbles in shadow magic, as well as necromantic activities- doesn't that technically, dilute the whole idea of Mancy >.>? >> Is the class technically a generalist, despite being a mancer in name? >> Does this basically mean Necromancers get umbramancy as a gimme?
I don't know if they could do the whole cutting light. If they could, they'd be pretty much unbeatable. You'd just point your finger at someone's head then boom! fried brains for dinner. Nothing moves faster than light. It would turn ridiculous pretty fast, I think. (though, Svil has cast some light spells in the past. But usually just to cut down advantages or create disadvantages. But the actual manipulation of light itself... that'd be very powerful.)
And no, illusionists can be many faceted, but one would assume that the first lessons they learn when going down the path of being an illusionist is how to manipulate light; colours etc... I would think that's what you'd learn first, then as you master the arts you begin to just mess with people's perceptions, rather than messing with the actual world.
The idea of being a mancer is to be wholly dedicated to one specific element of being a mage. Such as a pyromancer being fire. Necromancers are almost a class generalisation much like the word mage is. It is more limiting their magic to the darker side of spells, and also generally governs their patron God. Instead of Xalious, as was said the other day, they more worship Vakmatharas. So a necromancer knowing shadow magic may be like a mage knowing how to cast fireballs. Not -all- of them can do it, but generally it's accepted that they can at least know how to cast one and have an understanding of it. That isn't to say someone couldn't dedicate all their magic to shadow magic, and not touch any other aspect of necromancer talents. But they would still be a necromancer, just like Satoshi is still a mage. Albeit an entirely unique one.
That's how I see it, anyway. This is of course just my opinion.
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Lightning Is said to hit close to the speed of light (though also as low as half the speed). That's pretty pwn all, right there. Not to mention, unlike Light? Lightning -arcs-, which means it can literally adjust it's trajectory to kill you. >> Light doesn't do that.
Moreover, most high level magic borders on horrible killitude, anyways. Between getting a piece of moonrock dropped on you, earthquakes, pyroclasms. Semi -unavoidable- calamitys, like being trapped in a bubble of air that is either condensing on your position, or keeping you trapped in, even as it vents all the gas outside of it...Not to mention the implosion that'd ensue when all that air is released back into that created void. Oh. Also. any magic related to gravity- sanguimancy (Since on high tiers that typically goes lethal), aaand Darkness.
Just to point out with generic shadow magic. It is theoretically the same as the speed of light. Since it comes in the absence thereof.
That being said- Most magic I've seen go off is -alot- slower variants of the element, partially related to the fact that they are under the control of the caster. And are thus more subject to the speed of thought/perception, than their naturla laws.
And as an extra thing. I imagine it really depends on the illusion schools people go to. "Telemancy" is alot of stuff that falls under what some illusionists learn and focus on. And -strictly- that. >> Illusions are a ridiculously broad tree. Bending the light is hardly 'necessary' for an illusionist, it's just one common element people attribute to illusionists.
The actual application of adjusting light does have things that border into illusions, but it could also be built on it's own applications, including harnessing the energies that are actually contained in light. >> It's a thought.
Also, if necromancers are generalists....Then why are they on the mancer page, at all? >> Shouldn't we rename the class to something -other- than necromancer, if they are generalists?
We will not get into the semantics of ways attacks can become unblockable. Or at least, realistically unblockable. I think having the power to control light would be awfully strong... though, I suppose their natural enemy would be drow. Globe of darkness = win. But yes, let's not get into too much detail on that.
And yeah, people can learn illusion spells in different ways. I just think if you were an illusionist you'd have learned that. It's hard for me to explain, really. I just think people specialize in too small fields with their selected mancy. Becoming a 'master' of something easy to control is basically pointless. It's like being really good at thrusting a sword, but not practicing anything other type of attacking. It's fine to just be a swordsman, but don't limit your swordsmanship to just one small facet of it. That is a limitation you could work around, but it'd restrict far more RP than it would enhance. I guess with these constant new names for mancers that specialize in a small fields I feel it is limiting perhaps too much RP.
And finally, nah; necromancer is a student of death magic. If they later specialize, that's fine, but death magic is a broad field – it is still a field, though.
Svil's thoughts on mancers
Right, I decided while I was laying down today that I would explain in a little detail my apparent dislike for mancers.
It's not so much I dislike the limitations of a specific school of magery. My favourite RP partner is in fact just that; a powerful cyromancer. It's more in the beginning of a new character I dislike the limitations. I believe there are better ways to go about it, personally. I could have had Svil be a pyromancer throughout his growth through the Mage's Guild. Because of his affinity with the element. But it would have stopped so much RP for me. There is a lot you can do as a fire mage you cannot do as a pyromancer. And as your fire magic grows in strength, you can have it lower your abilities with other magic. But beyond combat, there is a lot you can do as a mage that is really fun. And I think you lose a fair bit of that if you go Pyromancer from day one.
I think that is a good reason why the guild only sees a mancer as such when they reach Magister Templi. It means when you're learning you can dabble in other things. As long as there is balance, really.
Also, I believe sometimes people become mancers in a school of magic that is more general and should be part of most mage's skill list. Limiting yourself to something really, really specific can be hard and stop fun RP. Now again, there are examples of it being done beautifully; the limits merely providing more fun obstacles to overcome. But if you are deciding to be a specific mancer, I would humbly suggest you do something that is at least diverse in its application.
This is somewhat difficult for me to write out, as Svil's magic does a lot of things - perhaps too many. But I just know from personal experience that casting mage-like spells out of combat for various things has and continues to add so much fun RP for me. But yes, as always this is just my opinion. :) And my opinion in this subject is dodgy at best. :)